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Charter + NHL Center Ice-Out of Area Fans Shafted


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#61 Sam_Adelphia

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 01:51 PM

Keonjen14 wrote:


Sam_Adelphia wrote:
Franklin_Turtle wrote:
SilverState14 said:

Jen, Franklin, All

I should say that I am a long-time lurker, so I am familliar with both of you, though it appears that Franklin is from the Reno area and if so we should get together and have a beer sometime.

The Reno crew gets together one to three times a year.  RenoMike posted a thread for the opener but I couldn't make that get together.  We almost always have at lest one get together for the playoffs.  If you don't stick around drop me a pm with your e-mail and next get together I'll drop you an e-mail.  This goes for any other Reno/Carson folks.
Cheers

I've been trying to get the east coast gang together in a similar fashion for 2 years now.

I guess their not really true Sharks fan...


All three of us?


The game on 15th in DC I'm already in weeds with.....Parent/Teacher Conference in the evening and Dentist appointment in the morning......the Gods didn't agree with this date, I'm sorry.
  
Bummer. Looking to score some cheap seats...


Definition of neoliberalism - The certainty that things that have worked just fine for decades, centuries or millennia must be changed just for the sake of change.

Definition of neoconservatism - The certainty that Jesus wrote the Constitution.


#62 Sam_Adelphia

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 05:40 AM

ThatDood wrote:


SilverState14 said:

Bergie--I just had what was substantially the same conversation with Mary, and made the same suggestion about Center Ice!

Great minds think alike.

Um, yeah, Mary and I are now really good friends. We spoke for over 30 minutes and she told me I really made an impression on her. I wonder if she dates older, happily married guys with kids? She told me she thought lifting the blackout could be more complicated than we think. It could be if they lift the blackout in a zip code, it may lift it for all providers. That wouldn't work too well considering the deals CI cut with DirecTV, Dish, etc. Essentially she said she didn't know if they could just lift the blackout for Charter customers in a specific zip code. She did tell me how great it is that they made the switch to CSNCA because they can now show 79 games and that is probably better than if they stuck with CSNBA. My reply was, "great for you guys, crappy for me. I am going from 79 games on CSNBA last year to 0 games this year, but hey, it's great for you guys."
I like Mary, she sounded cute on the phone. But Mary Grace? That sounds very Catholic.....wonder if she likes us heebs?
  
You'r jewish?

That explains a lot.


Definition of neoliberalism - The certainty that things that have worked just fine for decades, centuries or millennia must be changed just for the sake of change.

Definition of neoconservatism - The certainty that Jesus wrote the Constitution.


#63 Keonjen14

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 09:02 AM

So this problem is affecting Carson City, Reno, Nevada? It probably has more to do with ratings in that population? You should try to get the numbers to find out the breakdown of Households that watch the Sharks games and that will tell you why they aren't servicing that area....if it's less that what is appealing to the advertisers, then there is your problem and why they can insert the regional clause of the delivery of the game.

It wouldn't be a Sharks issue at all.

#64 Keonjen14

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 09:35 AM

Franklin_Turtle wrote:


Keonjen14 said:

So this problem is affecting Carson City, Reno, Nevada? It probably has more to do with ratings in that population? You should try to get the numbers to find out the breakdown of Households that watch the Sharks games and that will tell you why they aren't servicing that area....if it's less that what is appealing to the advertisers, then there is your problem and why they can insert the regional clause of the delivery of the game.

It wouldn't be a Sharks issue at all.
No it also includes several other communities that are served by Charter.

Charter Communications primarily serves fans in Morgan Hill, Gilroy, Hollister, Capitola, Turlock, King City, Reno and other markets.
http://sharks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=500804

Some of these communities have exclusive cable agreements with Charter making them the only game in town outside of DTv.  In the end Charter is a horrible provider.


I see. Thanks, Frankie. We have this problem with Comcast here. It's the only cable company - No Vios and we'd have to go with DTv or Dish if we wanted another service. It's only with our County as well. If you go to the county to West, East, South or North, you can get Verizon or another Cable company (Cox). Now, our reason is because they cannot give rights to the current cable lines to Verizon to allow them to offer the service. We also are a small market. 

Going back to this problem, I can see where there is an issue with the cable company but not with the Sharks or their broadcasting team or any affiliation with the NHL...this is simply a problem with the rights to the broadcast and that is with the NHL and their contract with Comcast and their outlets. They do restrict broadcast based on local availability, however, because they offer other means to get the broadcast - such as radio, they are not limiting these areas to not receive the game at all, they are simply not giving them access to the video broadcast via Charter at this point. It seems to be this would be the customer onus to find a means to get the game in another format at this point until there is something worked out to at that NHL level with their contracts. Does that make sense?
  

#65 Keonjen14

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 10:07 AM

Franklin_Turtle wrote:


Keonjen14 wrote:
Franklin_Turtle wrote:
Keonjen14 said:

So this problem is affecting Carson City, Reno, Nevada? It probably has more to do with ratings in that population? You should try to get the numbers to find out the breakdown of Households that watch the Sharks games and that will tell you why they aren't servicing that area....if it's less that what is appealing to the advertisers, then there is your problem and why they can insert the regional clause of the delivery of the game.

It wouldn't be a Sharks issue at all.
No it also includes several other communities that are served by Charter.

Charter Communications primarily serves fans in Morgan Hill, Gilroy, Hollister, Capitola, Turlock, King City, Reno and other markets.
http://sharks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=500804

Some of these communities have exclusive cable agreements with Charter making them the only game in town outside of DTv.  In the end Charter is a horrible provider.


I see. Thanks, Frankie. We have this problem with Comcast here. It's the only cable company - No Vios and we'd have to go with DTv or Dish if we wanted another service. It's only with our County as well. If you go to the county to West, East, South or North, you can get Verizon or another Cable company (Cox). Now, our reason is because they cannot give rights to the current cable lines to Verizon to allow them to offer the service. We also are a small market. 

Going back to this problem, I can see where there is an issue with the cable company but not with the Sharks or their broadcasting team or any affiliation with the NHL...this is simply a problem with the rights to the broadcast and that is with the NHL and their contract with Comcast and their outlets. They do restrict broadcast based on local availability, however, because they offer other means to get the broadcast - such as radio, they are not limiting these areas to not receive the game at all, they are simply not giving them access to the video broadcast via Charter at this point. It seems to be this would be the customer onus to find a means to get the game in another format at this point until there is something worked out to at that NHL level with their contracts. Does that make sense?
  
I'm not sure who sets the local availability.  I've heard that the Sharks do and at other times it's the NHL.  It seems reasonable to allow CI to show the games where they aren't available through the local provider but if you read the sharks little blurb it sounds like they and CSN are trying to pressure Charter to add CSNCA to the lineup but I could be mistaken.

Regardless, I have been planning to switch back to DirectTV for awhile now and this give me the impetus to take action.  Charter in Reno also tended not to add CSNBA2 when the game was showed on the alternate channel.  I had a long argument with a tech one night about this.  In the end Charter is not about customers (except for our money) as far as I am concerned.  Their channel lineups are weak for what you pay.  Service has been disrupted more than the DirectTV (The cable has gone out more often because of snow storms than the satellite..)  So I am off to DirectTV.



   It does seem reasonable to allow CI, but see it comes down the advertising as well. You know they sell the time and if they can't get the market share then it's not worth it to them to make the broadcast available for a limited few in those areas. I don't think it's fair at all. Frankly, I want out of comcast here and I've just reconnected the Canadian StarChoice just so I can get more games and TSN here so I don't have to pay Comcast to get NHL network, it was included in my package with StarChoice when I bought it. It's nuts, really. I just wish they'd come up with a better solutions, but it is business in the end and that's what makes the world go around.

#66 Keonjen14

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 12:20 PM

Sam_Adelphia wrote:


Franklin_Turtle wrote:
SilverState14 said:

Jen, Franklin, All

I should say that I am a long-time lurker, so I am familliar with both of you, though it appears that Franklin is from the Reno area and if so we should get together and have a beer sometime.

The Reno crew gets together one to three times a year.  RenoMike posted a thread for the opener but I couldn't make that get together.  We almost always have at lest one get together for the playoffs.  If you don't stick around drop me a pm with your e-mail and next get together I'll drop you an e-mail.  This goes for any other Reno/Carson folks.
Cheers

I've been trying to get the east coast gang together in a similar fashion for 2 years now.

I guess their not really true Sharks fan...


All three of us?


The game on 15th in DC I'm already in weeds with.....Parent/Teacher Conference in the evening and Dentist appointment in the morning......the Gods didn't agree with this date, I'm sorry.
  

#67 SJeasy

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 10:52 AM

Franklin_Turtle said:


I'm not sure who sets the local availability.  I've heard that the Sharks do and at other times it's the NHL.  It seems reasonable to allow CI to show the games where they aren't available through the local provider but if you read the sharks little blurb it sounds like they and CSN are trying to pressure Charter to add CSNCA to the lineup but I could be mistaken.

Regardless, I have been planning to switch back to DirectTV for awhile now and this give me the impetus to take action.  Charter in Reno also tended not to add CSNBA2 when the game was showed on the alternate channel.  I had a long argument with a tech one night about this.  In the end Charter is not about customers (except for our money) as far as I am concerned.  Their channel lineups are weak for what you pay.  Service has been disrupted more than the DirectTV (The cable has gone out more often because of snow storms than the satellite..)  So I am off to DirectTV.


It is an issue of Charter getting CSNCA as someone else pointed out above.  I am on the border between Comcast and Charter and can get either.  I looked at the pricing and it wasn't close, get more for less with Comcast.  Charter wasn't close and others nearby said that service was less consistent with Charter.  BTW, add some areas of Modesto and Dublin as areas served by Charter.  

A few years ago, I had a friend who moved into a private community where the only provider was Charter, about 500 townhomes.  The developer had signed an exclusive agreement with Charter.  No cable TV or cable internet without Charter in the community.  It was dead center in an area entirely covered by Comcast.

IIRC, the issue is that CSNCA is carried separately from CSNBA.  There is a lot of overlap in subscribers but it isn't perfect.  CSNCA is Sacramento; CSNBA is San Francisco.  CSNBA has more subscribers under its umbrella, but it is close.  IIRC, the Sharks got a better deal on price and non-blackout issues with CSNCA, but fewer subscribers/viewers.  With CSNBA, they would likely have had a lot of games that couldn't be covered because of simultaneous games in other sports with bigger numbers.  With CSNCA, they only get hit by the basketball Kings and A's.  IIRC, they get override on the A's.  

In perusing options, someone had Gamecenter online, not CI online.  They indicated that they didn't get hit with local blackouts.  Someone might want to check if Gamecenter online is a better option than CI online.  IIRC, the Gamecenter person got the Canadian feeds that are sometimes not carried by CI.  Confirm that Gamecenter is covering your games without blackout before purchasing.

#68 SJeasy

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 04:50 PM

ColbyTrio said:


On the phone with he Charter Retention Dept.  They are telling me they have been receiving a ton of calls about this issue.  They are also telling me that Charter is "working on getting the problem resolved."

Despite some of the earlier posts, Charter has known about this for 6 months (April).  If they haven't resolved it in 6 months, what do you think the chances are for a quick resolution?

#69 SilverState14

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 08:34 PM

I tried that and the response was that Comcast has regional authority over the broadcast and can choose to black it out if they so choose REGARDLESS OF WHEATHER OR NOT THEY CHOOSE TO PROVIDE COVERAGE TO A LOCAL MARKET.  They choose to not provide coverage to the local market, so I am officially screwed, and not in the good way.

#70 SilverState14

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 09:08 PM

At least you get to watch the game.  I spent the other night in my car listening to the game on XM--and the longer I listened, the angrier I got that I was missing such a good game.  Mad enough to pull the plug and go root for someone else like the Black Hawks that I can actually watch because they are out of market.

OK, maybe not, but the point is that it is way easier to watch/root for an out of area team than it is for us to watch/root for the Sharks in our market given the current climate.

#71 SilverState14

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 08:27 PM

Here's a shot at a first post that will get all of the regulars fired up.  I propose that any of us slapped in the face by the SJ Sharks moving to CSN CA boycott any trips that we had planned to HP pavillion.  I live in Carson City, and none of the providers here even carry CSN CA, yet NHL Center Ice has them blacked out because of the "regional carrier" issue.  I have made the trip 3 times a year to watch team teal play at the tank in the past, but you can bet your butt that I will not be going this year.

I also will not be buying a new sweater, hat, or anything else with the Sharks logo on it.

Before you argue that we need to lean on Charter Communications, Etc.......

Comcast wants us to do that, and the Sharks organization is backing them because of the deal they got with CSN CA.  They (Comcast) own Versus and charge more than any other provider to other organizations to pick up their channels.  This is purely a move to get the alternate providers to pick up another channel.  The Sharks organization must have known about this, which is really what angers me because they hung out to dry their Norcal and Nevada fan bases and announced it with 3 days to go before the season.

It is wrong, unfair, and the only way to hit back at them is to not support the team financially.

#72 SilverState14

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 10:36 AM

Jen, Franklin, All

I should say that I am a long-time lurker, so I am familliar with both of you, though it appears that Franklin is from the Reno area and if so we should get together and have a beer sometime.

I see the issue unfolding like this:
1.  Sharks move to CSN BA, Fans raise stink, Charter forced to pay Comcast for feed, Sharks and Comcast make $$$$
2.  Sharks cut deal with CSN CA, know that fans will raise stink and put pressure on Charter/other providers, hope that Charter is forced to pay for both CSN BA and CSN CA (2X the fees, ya know), Sharks and Comcast make even more $$$$ or "unimportant" fans can just listen to the game on the radio.
3.  In order to guarantee uproar and discontent, Sharks organization blocks transmission of Center Ice broadcasts to affected areas and seals off any recourse that the marginal fans have.  
4.  Sharks show their hand by writing up CSN-CA Woes article and urging fans to pressure alternate providers to acquire the channel (misdirect blame, and a lot of folks are falling for this).

Hopefully
5.  Out of market fans deemed "unimportant" send a message by refusing to go to games or purchase merchandise until such time as service is restored.  Hopefully, this block of marginalized fandom is large enough to cause at least a few empty seats at the tank and someone to go "eh??" in the front office.
6.  Coverage is restored, we buy new Sharks sweaters and go to a few games.

#73 SilverState14

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 10:54 AM

So do nothing and change nothing? I am so angry right now at the organization that I am willing to withdraw my support and give it to a team that I can actually follow without having to sit in the dark and listen to an audio feed. NHL Center Ice carries most of the games for other teams, but not this one. I grew up in the midwest, so I have historical allegiances that I could renew and actually see since I am willing to shell out for the package.

Also, it is a matter of context. If you go to the tank and see one or two games, but don't know the context in which these games are being played/why lines have been juggled, etc, then it is similar to stopping in in Vancouver and watching a Canucks game. You may know the players, but you don't know everything that is going on within the team because you haven't watched every game.

In short, if we are so unimportant to the organization, why should we support them anymore? What have they as an organization done for us anyway, except fail to produce in the playoffs?

#74 SilverState14

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 12:45 PM

You can be sure that I have been emailing/calling/raising a ruckus with Charter as well.  In fact, I was hung up on the other day when I found out that Center Ice was blacked-out (when I purchased Center Ice, Charter explicitly stated that it was not subject to blackout).  I told them that they lied to me, and they responded with "calm down, sir" 'click.'  I wasn't even yelling yet!

#75 SilverState14

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 02:14 PM

Bergie--I just had what was substantially the same conversation with Mary, and made the same suggestion about Center Ice!

Great minds think alike.

#76 SilverState14

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:42 AM

Hey folks,

I am proudly displaying my Fliers sweater today--I am so fortunate that my Eastern conference team isn't blacked out!   Even better, they are on Versus tonight with their great commentary and puck tracking abilities!  Yeay!

All kidding aside, the folks at the office today are wondering what the hell I am doing in a Fliers sweater when it is the Sharks home opener tonight.  Once I apprised them of the situation, I had one of the other "hockey nuts" agree to support the Boycott (even though he only goes to one game a year and is a Red Wings fan).  Still, progress is progress, and he is going to Glendale to see his Wings play instead of the Tank.

So now we number 2.......

#77 SilverState14

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:54 AM

%%@#, tonight is an away game! Here I was all fired up and I got it wrong! Oh well, chalk it up to inadequate media coverage and the inability to watch the season. It just means that I should be wearing the white sweater instead of the teal one, instead of the Flyers one.

#78 SilverState14

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:22 PM

See "Charter + NHL CENTER ICE FANS SHAFTED" thread for more on this topic.

#79 Funkmasterizzy

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 01:01 PM

I live out in Hollister and I have Charter. I only have cable basically for the Sharks games and so my kid can watch cartoons. I was happy with it because I got Versus and CSNBA with my expanded basic package. But now I can't see the games. So first I called and chatted them online and they said in order to log any complaint, I had to go to my local Charter office personally (Gilroy). I didn't want to let it slide so I went down there in it went like this:

I showed up and the lady says “Can I help you?”

Me: I want to make a complaint because I can no longer watch Sharks games at my house.

She: Oh, lots of people are coming here to make that complaint. Management is in discussions to add the new channel.

Me: Interesting, can I add my name to the list of complainers so that Charter has an inventory of customers who stopped by?

She: We have your information. I’ll add you to the list.

Me: I didn’t even tell you who I am. Can I see the list?

She: What list?

Me: The list for people who stopped by the office to complain since we can’t make complaints online or by phone. I took some time from work just to come here.

She: What’s you phone number?

Me: (I gave her my phone number)

She: (She types it in to her computer) You live in Hollister and your name is (Funkmasterizzy)?

Me: That’s right, can I see the list?

She: We have your information, thank you. We’ll forward it to the manager.

That’s when I left feeling totally blown off and lied to. Charter better fix this soon because I won’t miss most of the season for this, I’ll go to satellite to watch the games if this starts to take a long time.